Leslie and ME

Leslie and Me – Wagstaff

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Below you will find a transcript of Wagstaff a loveable character who came through one of Leslie Flint’s séances.

As you can see “Wag is a very talkative fellow” a “bit of a boy” as we say in England and he is one of my very own favourites.

There have been very many “Voices” that have come through Leslie, including many “celebrities” from all eras. Most of my personal favourites are those who are “Unknowns” perhaps we could say the “common man/woman”?

All have fascinating stories to tell and all have different views depending on their own experiences in life and of course in spirit.

Wagstaff has lots to say about his life and experiences in spirit too.

Wagstaff has lots to say about his life and mentioned places that I personally know well, “The cut” in south London and of course the market I am also familiar with. He mentions his sister and her difficulties with her religion and also the problems caused by those who carry out and work within the industry of vivisection, he states that “they will have no luck” Wagg is a very down to earth character and is well aware of his own limitations but is willing to learn.

Whatever our level we all have much to learn.

He has come forwards from spirit to show us that whatever our level or our own perceived level of learning things are not always what they appear and t is a sobering thought that we all have so much to learn.

The “Voices” have so much to say and their experiences are all individual just as ours are. There are some constants though… They we learn that we progress when we are ready and that a loving creator guides us always.

 

WAGSTAFF

 

Wag:

Gawd!

 

Betty Greene:          

Hello

 

Wag:             

Well, well, well, what an extraordinary thing I never thought I could come and speak like this!

 

Betty Greene:  

Didn’t you?

 

Wag:                         

Can you hear what I say?

 

Betty Greene:  

Yes!

 

Wag:

cor dear oh dear, where’s your friend?

 

Betty Greene:         

Erm… his very tired today so he’s not coming in.

 

Wag:

Oh poor old chap sorry to hear that. There’s a crowd of people here today I tell ya, cor!

 

Betty Greene:

Like to send a message to him?

 

Wag:

Tell him to keep his pecker up. Tell him we’re around keeping an eye on him, doing what can help.

 

Betty Greene:

Good thank you

 

Wag:

Cor dear oh dear! What a crowd there is here this morning, cor dear.

 

Betty Greene:

Can’t you speak, come give me a talk friend at all? I don’t know.

 

Wag:

I have been here before I have…

 

Betty Greene:

What’s your name friend?

 

Wag:

…But er if anyone had told me about this I’d never have believed it a’ course when I was on your side but it’s all very interesting, my names Wag.

 

Betty Greene:

Wag?

 

Wag:

Yeah, well really my names Wagstaff but er I was always known as Wag…

 

Betty Greene:

Oh yeah?

 

Wag:            

…but all my friends’ jus call me Wag. Yeah that go back a bit, cor dear oh dear!

 

Betty Greene:

You been here before have you Mr Wag?

 

Wag:

Yeah I’ve been here before many a’ time but I’d not er really had much chance to have a word or nuffink y’know

 

Betty Greene:

Well can you tell us about yourself?

 

Wag:

Eh?

 

Betty Greene:

Can you tell us about yourself?

 

Wag:

Cor what a packet!

 

Betty Greene:

What your doing that sort of thing?

Wag:

What am I doing? Oh well, sort of getting myself sort reorganised… spose you could put it like that, changed my views a good bit course not had much cos I was really never minded in that way I had an open mind I didn’t blame people if they wanna do that or whatever it was I’d always go with it I wouldn’t interfere with no one else I was always er y’know sort of easy going me, I never went to church not ‘cept when I was a little’un quite a nipper I got all that outa my system I never had it in me I spose

 

Betty Greene:

no

 

Wag:

course I had me ups an me downs I lived with me sister for about forty odd years I never got married neither did she, I used to er… I used to er… have a stall

 

Betty Greene:

stall?

 

Wag:

Stall …l cor yeah many years ago down petticoat lane.

 

Betty Greene:

Oh yeah!

 

Wag:

That must be going back cor… must be… forty odd years or more now I came through, came through the first war as you call it, y’know 14 – 18, and I started up again but I got badly gassed that had a bad effect on me and I came here 1928 I think it was, must be 28 yeah was 28. Yeah I had a proper basketful one way and another still I didn’t mind I was easy going I enjoyed me life I think er… the war put me off a lot of things like religion an all that cause I lost faith not that I had much to start with y’know me old sister she was a real one for church going an all that. We had a few arguments she used to go to congregationists don’t know why she particularly went there I think she enjoyed the singing and the social side of it. She was a good sister she used to look after me. She kept the place nice since the old lady passed over, me Father died when I was very young. Oh we were quite happy. Corse you wouldn’t know Britain Street would yer?

 

Betty Greene:

Bruton Street?

 

Wag:

No, Britain

 

Betty Greene:

No, no I don’t

 

Wag:

No, cause that’s going back a few years now things are bombed during the war lots of changes up the cut* an all that y’know

*the Cut is a road in south London.

 

 

Wag:

Yeah an I used to sell all odds and ends. Used to get a load of old junk buy it up y’know sell it and make a bit of a profit I left a few quid lying around one way and another I never had no bank account but er… my sister she… I spose she got through all that…

 

Betty Greene:

Er… yes…

 

Wag:

Do y’know Brixton at all?

 

Betty Greene:

Yes, yes…

 

Wag:

I was over there for a time. Nice house. We were born over that way.

 

Betty Greene:

That’s changed a lot!

 

Wag:

Ooh yeah well I tell yer, every where’s changed London’s changed beyond recognition very different to what I remember it. What a mess the place is in.

 

Betty Greene:

(Keeps interrupting) Asks a question.

 

Wag:

You wanna know what?

 

Betty Greene:

What did you see when you finally passed over I mean…

 

Wag:                         

What do you mean what did I feel?

 

Betty Greene:

What did you feel about religion…?

 

Wag:

AH Well, I was in hospital, was in hospital for a couple of weeks maybe, perhaps longer… I dunno jus couldn’t get me breath it was this gassing business and indigestion all that lark y’know. Oh my sister came I remember her sitting there beside me but I couldn’t say nuffink I was sort half there sort half and sort half somewhere else funny that! I remember her seeing her… seeing her… walking… walking down the cemetery path one day I was standing right beside her, walking beside her she went to my mothers grave and er… dads grave y’know and I was buried there too now y’see and there was me trotting down the path y’know beside her she got some daisies or sumink somewhere she got from the shop y’know she was a bit religious in her way said a few prayers and all the rest of it tidied up the grave and y’know she’s alright she’s a good soul she’s over here now I see her sometimes we’re not together though she got this high falluting idea about religion it had an ‘ffect on her y’know I s’pect one day we’ll come up together again but er… I don’t live with er or nuffink … the old lady I seen quite a few times an me father I’m not with them I’m in a different sort of place well it’s my own fault I s’pose it is I dunno I’m quite happy where I am so why should I…

 

Betty Greene:

So what sort of place are you in?

 

Wag:

Ooh I got a nice little country place, little place I always y’know when on your side I always wanted to live in the country cos my sister she was always a real Londoner she… she didn’t wanna move out’ all so I got a nice little place wernt bad and she was house bound and that was another thing that used to set us orff sometimes she couldn’t cook oh dear! She didn’t like a speck of dust anywhere well that’s alright as far as it goes but if you shift a chair, shift anything an ornament whatever she went on at you ooh she was worse than me mother she was bad enough! But anyway that’s neither here… what was I talking about?

 

Betty Greene:

You were talking about the other side

 

Wag:

Oh yeah I got a nice little place a little cottage place I share with a friend of mine, y’know him well… Budick (?) we used to go around and have a drink an all that sometimes he’d come and help me with my job and er… I used to go out with an horse and cart y’know and used to collect stuff from peoples houses that they were chucking out and give em a few bob for it used to take it down the cut an down the market and get rid of it y’know and make a bit on it one time a got a consignment of new stuff y’know and er well… I couldn’t say whether it had been lifted or not but er… anyway I used to flog it…

 

Betty Greene:

Bent!

 

Wag:

…and er we had a good time anyway I always got on well with him we were much the same cup o’tea like peas out of a pod in fact often we were taken for brothers sometimes people didn’t know y’now we were sitting in a pub having a drink we were very much alike strange enough no relation a’ course at all there was a similarity but I think if it wasn’t for my sister I’d have packed it all in and gone and lived with him we got on well ooh she was real hard in her own way … she was well meaning but er… cor she used to drive you round the bend! She wouldn’t touch a drop y’know you could never take any booze back could never take anyone back couldn’t use the parlour

 

Betty Greene:

Huh?

 

Wag:

Y’know it was murder, but she was my sister and she depended on me more or less she used to take… she was very clever with the needles she used to take in a bit of sewing she was quite good at that she wor… well she didn’t work in a way she used to go to a place and fetch it, do it and take it back get a few bob erm… well I didn’t mind I didn’t want to go out we could manage but she was a miserable bitch really I didn’t want to live with her over here either too it worked out alright I’m with my friend Sam

 

Betty Greene:

Yes…

 

Wag:

corse that’s another thing he’s a bit of a case he is! He and I thought much alike no time for religion! Well… I spose I shouldn’t put it like that well meaning lovely people but my sister put me orff it too in a way y’know me mother was well… I spose it’s way back in the family. Anyway its –something is said which is intelligible- anyway her brain is in a proper mess now cor dear oh dear!

 

Betty Greene:

Is it?

 

Wag:

Can’t see it for weeds, cant see it for dust let them bother these days y’know, don’t blame them not much point to it when your dead your dead I used to say course that’s not true cos I find that I’m much more alive but er… Ooh I wouldn’t come back to your side not for nothing ooh I’ll tell you about my sister she used to go regular every Sunday she used to go to church in the evenings Sunday she’d visit the cemetery get a hot lunch that was another y’know thing she used to cook this er meal midday, dinner we called it y’know, people used to call it lunch don’t they? But er… Cor blimey if I was in late she got it in the oven she was in a proper state about that, ooh that was another thing sometimes I get back late from the pub used to have a set to then she would always be haughty she would never she would never sort of well I dunno she was a case I couldn’t have lived with her but I had to more or less but I suppose in a way being my sister’s supporter but I couldn’t stand that lark but I wouldn’t want her here I mean I couldn’t stand that lark!

 

Betty Greene:

How do you … I beg your pardon

 

Wag:

What?

 

Betty Greene:

What are you doing now?

 

Wag:            

She’s still got this religious mania y’see still she’s happy enough I see her from time to time she says that I ought to come out of this condition or whatever she likes to call it, where I am, but why should I? Well I’m very happy here. well I came here in my forties, I’m young and fit and well my friend ‘e love the countryside and talk to the animals… it’s a funny thing that you say talk to the animals you can talk to the animals y’know and they understand you too they have their own little way of life I got two dogs… another thing she would never dare have a dog in the house always wanted a dog I did, always did she would never even have a cat! She was that prejudiced most women like cats but she didn’t she wasn’t into animals that much when they play sometimes and had hairs everywhere an all that she used to send me to

 

Betty Greene:

‘lizbeth?

 

Wag:

Next door look at her place all those cats, piddling all over the place, the smell an all that y’know cor dear oh dear! You couldn’t have anything where she was concerned. so know I got a couple of lovely dogs that came over oh seventeen years back one was killed and I was able to help it when it was killed in the streets and the other one belonged to a relation of ours now we didn’t see her much she was an aunt actually my mothers sister used to visit her on rare occasions she was real animal she loved the animals cos my sister she always used to moan about her when she went to her house says it stinks the house out y’know but the dog was clean lovely little dog I like “dell” so anyway I got and this other dog I told you about that was killed like y’know

 

Betty Greene:

Yeah!

 

Wag:

Oh I’m very happy like y’know in my way I’m free an easy I’m studying, learning I go to church but not religious church now that may strike you as odd dun it…

 

Betty Greene:

Is it a church?

 

Wag:

…well, I call it church but it aint church cos they don’t talk about religions so I spose in a way it aint church…

 

Betty Greene:

what do they talk about?

 

Wag: 

…well talk about philosophy they talk about life er… progression and erm… spiritual matters somehow it aint church to me but I call it kinda way church because in a sort of…sort of way it is y’know but its my idea of what church should be none of this ramming it down yer throat singing hymns and playing harmoniums an all that lark! this is interesting people who have got some ting to say intelligent you can take it in and intresting and also you have what you call well id dunno if you call em film shows that’s stupid cause there aint no films as you might understand it but it as if they got some sort of vast sort of something at the end of a large hall like a big screen as I spose really and you see all these pictures I spose and er… ooh it’s the history of man and er… terribly exciting cos you see all different aspects of mans life through generations of time how he as evolved and developed how certain aspects of man himself have prevented or created certain circumstances, situations which have made it difficult to achieve in the way he might have gone ort intended or has hope for y’know its illuminating to the mind I’m learning an lot from that and it is a kinda church funny init? But its not religion y’know not the old orthodox bashing away an all that none of them laughing away at the man with the dog collar

 

Betty Greene:

Er… you were saying… tell me about the history of man, well man didn’t start with Adam and Eve did he?

 

 

Wag:

Cor shouldn’t think so…

 

Betty Greene:

I mean didn’t they tell you that?

 

Wag:

                                    well… that’s the old bible stories init?

 

Betty Greene:

Have you never gone back you know…

 

Wag:

Well I think that Man developed over aeons and aeons and aeons of time and er… he just evolved er… from certain aspects of… from the physical point of view from what I understand from various lower species into gradual evolution through centuries and centuries of time but the mentality of the spirit vitalising the erm… the aspect of reality of the self as they call it this was always there searching for a way of expression and gradually man evolved and became as you term it a human being but I don’t think it has anything to do with religion or orthodox way like my sister believes I mean she still believes that … much the same as they do on the earth that there is going to be a great resurrection day she’ll get back to the earth and er… and her bodies going to come out the grave and er…… and she’s going to get all her flesh back on it don’t know where she going to get it from!

 

Betty Greene:

Laughs!

 

Wag:

Don’t know where she’s going to get her specs or not anyway she told me shed be able to see without them if she ever gets back there. she’s got all these old fashioned ideas she… she living with a community of people an that that are very religious I’ve been there a few odd times she tried to persuade me but… I just don’t go for that y’know but she lives in that way and she thinks in that way that’s the way she is.

 

Betty Greene:

Quite!

 

Wag:

She don’t seem to want nothing else she’s quite happy y’know quite frankly she a good sort well I never thought otherwise we used to have our ups and our downs and she used to ram religion down my throat and try to get me to get with her but I wouldn’t buy that one but er… she was never happy about my friendship with my mate either she always thought he was a bit too fond of dink well… he never got mad drunk only at Christmas and ‘praps bank holidays but he was alright.

 

Betty Greene:

Well…

 

Wag:

We used to have a pony and trap way back when y’know have I told you bout my horse and cart?

 

Betty Greene:

Yes?

 

Wag:            

We also had an old trap that we bought second hand yeah which was kept in this old place that we used to y’know put the horse in an that in the back street there we sometime go out into the country talking bout some years ago when you could get out in the country a bit y’know…

 

Betty Greene:

Yes…

 

Wag:            

…the car was well… y’know on the road an all that but em well… we used to get out and about and we used to enjoy ourselves have a proper booze up in a country pub an some bread and cheese an that and er… we were happy she could never see anything to that y’know

 

Betty Greene:

No? Now… Mr Wagstaff can I get back to… you know you said you helped a dog that was killed?

 

Wag:

Oh yeah !

 

Betty Greene:

The dog you’ve got…

 

Wag:

Yeah that’s right.

 

Betty Greene:

…now then what was it… when that doggy was killed what happened to the etheric counterpart of that dog did you… did it sort of look bewildered wondered what had happened to itself or what

 

Wag:

What do you mean etheric?

 

Betty Greene:

The spirit of the dog…

 

Wag:

Oh well the animal himself yeah, the real dog. Well y’see this is it, well I learnt that the body’s nuffink in a sense it’s only the shell…

 

Betty Greene:

…yes that’s right…

 

Wag:

…its only the outer covering which you sort of express yourself… er… its necessary in your world from a material point of view you have to have it. But er…… the real self the real spirit of the person everything you might say is er…… you know… you which goes on and on like well… it’s the same with the animals the dog just sort of after it had been knocked down and killed like it just sort of it just stood around like animals can do like people do as a matter of fact when things happen like that bewildered like, see? And I’m very fond of animals and er… I just coaxed it away brought it with us and now it’s with me.

 

Betty Greene:

Oh I see…

 

Wag:

Y’know and a lot of animals, poor little animals they do these terrible things to… there’s loads of souls from this side who go there to try and help them comfort when the poor little things come to cease to exist generally they are taken away from there y’see there’s another thing the animals have such faith there so simple and have a way of trusting and then they get things happen it affects them in a way and I don’t mean physically but in a mental sense and er… we have quite a problem sometimes with some of the animals they lose their faith and trust you see we have to restore that its like double work. In those places ooh er… these places if only people could realise what those vivi… this vivisection section places are like it’s like there a terrible, terrible, terrible fog and depression and the atmosphere round those places is something appalling and I’ll tell you one thing mate…

 

Betty Greene:

Yeah…

 

Wag:

…quite apart from the doctors and all the rest of it who did the experimenting, the people that work there will never, never be materially happy or successful there will always be trouble and disaster following in its wake they’ll never know real happiness…

 

Betty Greene:

…well of course not…

 

Wag:

…cos their drawing all the wrong conditions and their attracting all the wrong conditions and people…

 

Betty Greene:

…but their helping in it aren’t they?

 

Wag:

…and take it from me no one, no one should have anything to do with those places cos of the experiments and the terrible things they do and the unnecessary things that they do cos no good can ever come of that if anyone can be cruel to animals they can do almost anything anyway I do not want to dwell on it because its depressing…

 

Betty Greene:

No its very intresting to hear you say that

 

Wag:            

…you’ve got to learn to live with nature naturally and live true nature and with nature and follow natures plan you cant go far wrong you must do unto others as you would be done by that includes the poor little dumb creatures in fact they need your help and assistance and kindness and if you send out love everywhere you cant go far wrong it will come back to you a thousand fold not that you do good deeds to get good deeds come back to ya not that you expect y’know… in return like but er… like… conditions around your world are terrible I mean I come here like dragged in, in a kinda way cos I know that you kinda do some good work and you’ve got some good people well… your kind and considerate and you help people and you try to find out truth and give it too others and try and uplift them an all that it’s the joy of coming but other places Wooh! I mean some of these new churches and places are terrible the atmospheres appalling…

 

Betty Greene:

I don’t like them…

 

Wag:

…they don’t realise it y’know they look all on the surface an’ all the rest of it some of them are very beautiful got lovely things inside but a lot of them are really empty there’s no real spirit there there’s no good understanding there’s no tolerance sometimes you know their so narrow-minded so bog down with superstition and gawd knows what else they don’t realise it the truth is found not inside but outside…

 

Betty Greene:

Quite right…

 

Wag:

…perhaps Is shouldn’t say this… my sister wouldn’t like it… she still clings to it all but I cant see its any benefit to her she’s… she’s happy in her way its true but it all seems as if to me she made no step forward nowhere…

 

Betty Greene:

…she’s bogged own isn’t she?

 

Wag:

…well she is and all the people she links up with, congregates with she always trying to save me many a’ time shell never do that I said if you’re a sample of being saved I’m jolly glad I aint!

 

Betty Greene:

Laughs!

 

Wag:

Anyway I shouldn’t say that should I? Is it good having a laugh then? There are all sorts of different conditions as you call it or states of being or whatever you like to call it according to the individuals some people say I’m not progressed perhaps I’m not progressed I dunno all I know is that er…… at least I got an open mind I’m trying to find out I’m searching I’m happy got good companionship love and affection and my mind is open to receive and if I cant accept something or don’t understand something I’ll say so and I don’t necessarily turn it down exactly I give it a thought y’know some of these people cor stone the crows… you cant get anywhere near em! Like a closed shop they don’t wanna know they just think that there gonna be… some cases like my sister she really believes that old those old bits of bone are all coming together and the joints are going to be secured again and she going around and like is was when on earth and clothed in glory on earth Cor! Dear ol dear poor thing! She wasn’t much too look at then!

 

Betty Greene:

Laughs!

 

Wag:

Poor old sausage she is… anyway I can’t stay…

 

 

Betty Greene:

It’s very nice of you to come…

 

Wag:

Rare old crowd around here today I tell ya all sorts they all come in love Few nosey ones naturally all searching but that’s just as well… get all sorts anyway all the best and remember me to your friend…

 

Betty Greene:

I will…

 

Wag:

…give him my best wishes

 

Betty Greene:

…thank you very much

 

Wag:

…yeah call me Wag …

 

Betty Greene:          

Wag…

 

Wag:

Yeah !

 

Betty Greene:

…bye bye, Wag Thank you very much

 

Mickey:

Bye bye !

 

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